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You know I'm always promoting the dissolution of most gender roles and differences? Well, that hasn't happened yet, so now I'm going to talk about the world in which we live, in which the female experience varies from the male experience - to different degrees based on numerous factors. In this world, the female experience is lacking a voice in history, art, the media, politics and academia. Women are represented in most public spheres in numbers far, far less than their proportion of the total population.
Women are taught to identify with men - they have to, humanity is male. But men are not taught to identify with women. I don't even think that statement needs to be substantiated, really. Books, television, children's pasttimes, career paths, college majors, clothing, school curriculums, this is fucking everywhere.
A part of the post-feminism world in which we live is that women are able to go into traditionally male-dominated fields, and this trend has not been reciprocated by men going into female-dominated fields. Part of the reason is that female-dominated fields are often paid less - nurses and teachers, for example, which is shameful and horrible. But another highly significant reason is that men pursuing traditionally female interests are mocked and derided and can even be subject to violence (sexism hurts men!). This reflects homophobia, but it also reflects misogyny. (I think I got these facts from here.)
I think it's incredibly harmful, so harmful, that men do not learn to identify with women, are not expected to become attached to TV shows with female leads as kids or read books about women in high school or go see movies about women as adults. I was reading a lot about rape and violence against women today, about how men participate in a rape culture where they don't speak out against sexism and violence even if they are not perpetrating it, where they buy into the myths that it's possible for the woman to "ask for it" and that once aroused they have a right to receive satisfaction. I wonder if this problem would be less severe if men's experiences taught them to identify with women more, to truly view them as people and not Other, to know and experience women's points of view.
Side note, I know there are men who can and do identify with women - but I'm pretty sure they're vastly outnumbered. Although I actually don't know a lot of asshole men that I have to deal with all the time, luckily, so some of my characterizations are based on other's stories, my experiences online, and the men who comment on the feminist articles I read, along with my own remembered experiences with sexism. If someone isn't treating me like a person, I stay away from them - but I'm also not attractive enough to be treated like an object too often so I am spared a certain amount of having to deal. Of course, I lack good data on the extent to which men these days are identifying with women, which is why this is my personal journal. XD
My experiences and that of many of my friends, as upper/middle-class, often white intellectuals is that we don't have to deal with this crap too much. Of course that's a good sign that we can meet good men in large numbers, but it also means I'm occasionally met with a sort of "not my problem, it's clearly not happening anymore" vibe when I talk about feminist stuff with them, but I assure you that reading personal stories at feminist sites that range from discussions with family over the dinner table to tragic violence, it really is happening, at schools, at places of work, in homes, and of course, on the street, in bars, at clubs and at parties.
Remember what I was saying the other day about evo-psych and how creating imagined inherent differences between men and women hampers people from being able to have successful heterosexual relationships? Well, I think this identification issue is another aspect of that - another way in which people cling to the idea that men and women are different and irreconcilable. They maintain the myth that women are these emotional creatures that are beyond men's understanding, when what's actually happening is that men are not being taught to understand women or empathize with them or put themselves in our place. (And, I think, women are taught to encourage that. Related note, I DO NOT LIKE the song "Bitch," except for a line here or there.)
By the way, it's when these phenomena manifest themselves in children's television that really makes me sad. The other stuff might make me angry, but my god do I hate to see TV for young kids enforcing gender roles. People are always saying that the really racist people and really homophobic people are old and will die and kids are much more tolerant, but I think sexism is being clung to at a far, far greater rate. There just isn't the same social pressure against it, shaming the behavior and starting change. I hope that things are changing, just slowly, but man. It doesn't feel great.
Also, having to explain to kids that they're seen as systematically inferior SUCKS. I saw an adorable video a while back of Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz taking her daughter around the Capitol (found it!) and she has to explain to her daughter why it took so long for women to get the right to vote. I believe she goes with "Men didn't trust women enough" and her daughter basically says "I trust boys even when they have cooties." (OK she didn't say cooties but it was implied. So cute!) Anyway, it's both adorable and really sad. [By the way, I can't even imagine how much shittier this conversation is for people of color, especially African-Americans. I originally didn't mention it because it seemed disrespectful to just include as an aside and I'm not qualified to speak at greater length, but leaving it out seemed even worse.]
A few links to pass on, since I've been collecting them and might as well share.
Starting with the lighter stuff!
"Strong Female Characters" - this says a lot of things that I've been trying to say. I was like "Yeeeeees." Strong female character is a meaningless term, it's not productive. The whole identification thing I talk about? That's helped when female characters are complex, human, fully fleshed out, real. It has nothing to do with how much ass they kick, how much power they hold, or how little they cry. She tries to search for a replacement for strong - I'd go with "real"? Or even "human."
Joey B and Violence Against Women - man, was I worried when I saw this, the blog is largely negative (as are most) and I really didn't think they were going to be handing out cookies, but Joey B did give a great speech and I'm happy they pointed me to it. Jilly B is super-awesome, I bet she helps Joey be so great.
And the media-related stuff. Two articles from The Hathor Legacy, an awesome blog. They're both by Jennifer Kesler, who I believe is the founder. These make me so angry.
On women and advertising - advertisers pay less for potential female viewers, because conventional wisdom is that 1) we're less likely to spend money on things? and 2) we're more likely to be watching TV anyway, so there's no demand. This means men are the assumed consumers, so programming is geared towards them - which, hey!, leads to the shit that I talk about above. (More on this from Ms. Kesler, cos Hollywood is oh my god so guilty as well. RAGE.) This is all run by "conventional wisdom" and inertia, not actual reason. I really recommend the blog, especially the Industry Buzz section. It articulates a lot of stuff that I vaguely sensed and demonstrates that none of this stuff is accidental.
On standards of beauty for successful actresses. GRRRRR. I don't think I talk about it as much as other things but believe me the appearance standards drives me crazy. I think men learn to fetishize things and again, that hurts everyone - men when their sex drive gets sort of screwed up, but more so women when they're encouraged to get plastic surgery.
And on men living in rape culture and allowing it to continue:
The initial article, explaining that men raping women is part of our culture and it doesn't fucking have to be like that.
A response with links to other relevant articles
So sad, so serious, so well said.
One person mentioned a game kids were playing at a pool when she was 15 or 16. The guys had just started getting stronger than the girls and they started playing a game where the guys would pick up and dunk the girls. It was in fun and everyone was laughing, but the girls were incapable of physically fighting off the guys, and any objection - shrieking, squirming, struggling - was ignored and seen as part of the game. So the only way to not participate was for this woman to get out of the pool completely. Now, the game itself is not a horrible thing for these kids to have done. But in life, so many of us have to get out of the pool, we're unable to go swimming, because we know it's the only way we can protect ourselves. I could really relate to that, which is why I retyped it even though it's the least disturbing thing to come out of the discussion. Another woman mentioned how she spends too much time making sure she'd be a credible victim, which I can also relate to. I shouldn't have to be a virtuous stay-at-home for people to 1) not rape me and 2) believe me if I say I've been raped. I should be able to be in a drunken stupor at a frat party in a short skirt and I should be safe.
Women are taught to identify with men - they have to, humanity is male. But men are not taught to identify with women. I don't even think that statement needs to be substantiated, really. Books, television, children's pasttimes, career paths, college majors, clothing, school curriculums, this is fucking everywhere.
A part of the post-feminism world in which we live is that women are able to go into traditionally male-dominated fields, and this trend has not been reciprocated by men going into female-dominated fields. Part of the reason is that female-dominated fields are often paid less - nurses and teachers, for example, which is shameful and horrible. But another highly significant reason is that men pursuing traditionally female interests are mocked and derided and can even be subject to violence (sexism hurts men!). This reflects homophobia, but it also reflects misogyny. (I think I got these facts from here.)
I think it's incredibly harmful, so harmful, that men do not learn to identify with women, are not expected to become attached to TV shows with female leads as kids or read books about women in high school or go see movies about women as adults. I was reading a lot about rape and violence against women today, about how men participate in a rape culture where they don't speak out against sexism and violence even if they are not perpetrating it, where they buy into the myths that it's possible for the woman to "ask for it" and that once aroused they have a right to receive satisfaction. I wonder if this problem would be less severe if men's experiences taught them to identify with women more, to truly view them as people and not Other, to know and experience women's points of view.
Side note, I know there are men who can and do identify with women - but I'm pretty sure they're vastly outnumbered. Although I actually don't know a lot of asshole men that I have to deal with all the time, luckily, so some of my characterizations are based on other's stories, my experiences online, and the men who comment on the feminist articles I read, along with my own remembered experiences with sexism. If someone isn't treating me like a person, I stay away from them - but I'm also not attractive enough to be treated like an object too often so I am spared a certain amount of having to deal. Of course, I lack good data on the extent to which men these days are identifying with women, which is why this is my personal journal. XD
My experiences and that of many of my friends, as upper/middle-class, often white intellectuals is that we don't have to deal with this crap too much. Of course that's a good sign that we can meet good men in large numbers, but it also means I'm occasionally met with a sort of "not my problem, it's clearly not happening anymore" vibe when I talk about feminist stuff with them, but I assure you that reading personal stories at feminist sites that range from discussions with family over the dinner table to tragic violence, it really is happening, at schools, at places of work, in homes, and of course, on the street, in bars, at clubs and at parties.
Remember what I was saying the other day about evo-psych and how creating imagined inherent differences between men and women hampers people from being able to have successful heterosexual relationships? Well, I think this identification issue is another aspect of that - another way in which people cling to the idea that men and women are different and irreconcilable. They maintain the myth that women are these emotional creatures that are beyond men's understanding, when what's actually happening is that men are not being taught to understand women or empathize with them or put themselves in our place. (And, I think, women are taught to encourage that. Related note, I DO NOT LIKE the song "Bitch," except for a line here or there.)
By the way, it's when these phenomena manifest themselves in children's television that really makes me sad. The other stuff might make me angry, but my god do I hate to see TV for young kids enforcing gender roles. People are always saying that the really racist people and really homophobic people are old and will die and kids are much more tolerant, but I think sexism is being clung to at a far, far greater rate. There just isn't the same social pressure against it, shaming the behavior and starting change. I hope that things are changing, just slowly, but man. It doesn't feel great.
Also, having to explain to kids that they're seen as systematically inferior SUCKS. I saw an adorable video a while back of Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz taking her daughter around the Capitol (found it!) and she has to explain to her daughter why it took so long for women to get the right to vote. I believe she goes with "Men didn't trust women enough" and her daughter basically says "I trust boys even when they have cooties." (OK she didn't say cooties but it was implied. So cute!) Anyway, it's both adorable and really sad. [By the way, I can't even imagine how much shittier this conversation is for people of color, especially African-Americans. I originally didn't mention it because it seemed disrespectful to just include as an aside and I'm not qualified to speak at greater length, but leaving it out seemed even worse.]
A few links to pass on, since I've been collecting them and might as well share.
Starting with the lighter stuff!
"Strong Female Characters" - this says a lot of things that I've been trying to say. I was like "Yeeeeees." Strong female character is a meaningless term, it's not productive. The whole identification thing I talk about? That's helped when female characters are complex, human, fully fleshed out, real. It has nothing to do with how much ass they kick, how much power they hold, or how little they cry. She tries to search for a replacement for strong - I'd go with "real"? Or even "human."
Joey B and Violence Against Women - man, was I worried when I saw this, the blog is largely negative (as are most) and I really didn't think they were going to be handing out cookies, but Joey B did give a great speech and I'm happy they pointed me to it. Jilly B is super-awesome, I bet she helps Joey be so great.
And the media-related stuff. Two articles from The Hathor Legacy, an awesome blog. They're both by Jennifer Kesler, who I believe is the founder. These make me so angry.
On women and advertising - advertisers pay less for potential female viewers, because conventional wisdom is that 1) we're less likely to spend money on things? and 2) we're more likely to be watching TV anyway, so there's no demand. This means men are the assumed consumers, so programming is geared towards them - which, hey!, leads to the shit that I talk about above. (More on this from Ms. Kesler, cos Hollywood is oh my god so guilty as well. RAGE.) This is all run by "conventional wisdom" and inertia, not actual reason. I really recommend the blog, especially the Industry Buzz section. It articulates a lot of stuff that I vaguely sensed and demonstrates that none of this stuff is accidental.
On standards of beauty for successful actresses. GRRRRR. I don't think I talk about it as much as other things but believe me the appearance standards drives me crazy. I think men learn to fetishize things and again, that hurts everyone - men when their sex drive gets sort of screwed up, but more so women when they're encouraged to get plastic surgery.
And on men living in rape culture and allowing it to continue:
The initial article, explaining that men raping women is part of our culture and it doesn't fucking have to be like that.
A response with links to other relevant articles
So sad, so serious, so well said.
One person mentioned a game kids were playing at a pool when she was 15 or 16. The guys had just started getting stronger than the girls and they started playing a game where the guys would pick up and dunk the girls. It was in fun and everyone was laughing, but the girls were incapable of physically fighting off the guys, and any objection - shrieking, squirming, struggling - was ignored and seen as part of the game. So the only way to not participate was for this woman to get out of the pool completely. Now, the game itself is not a horrible thing for these kids to have done. But in life, so many of us have to get out of the pool, we're unable to go swimming, because we know it's the only way we can protect ourselves. I could really relate to that, which is why I retyped it even though it's the least disturbing thing to come out of the discussion. Another woman mentioned how she spends too much time making sure she'd be a credible victim, which I can also relate to. I shouldn't have to be a virtuous stay-at-home for people to 1) not rape me and 2) believe me if I say I've been raped. I should be able to be in a drunken stupor at a frat party in a short skirt and I should be safe.
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no subject
Date: 2009-07-07 01:35 am (UTC)It's just so much RF seems to come from a man-hating place. And I can't get behind that. I'm a feminist because we should all be equal, not because I hate men.
no subject
Date: 2009-07-07 01:38 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-07 01:47 am (UTC)