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Anyone that participates in a fanfiction-y world, please share your thoughts on the subject with me. This is mostly just my own preferences and ideas, but partly it's just very half-formed and uncertain because I'm sure there are other perspectives and thoughts that I haven't realized yet. So I'd love to hear what other people think and like and look for.
Note: I'm aroused by a lot of material that many people find disturbing. This material is primarily not found in fanfic, and is only touched upon here. But it is mentioned and if you will get freaked out by that, please don't read this and maintain your mental image of me as normal and pure. XD Oh, hey, Corey! You said you were going to stop by to read about gynocologists - that's the entry below this one! Keep moving! I know, my normal and pure ship has sailed with you. Still. . .
My position towards fanfic is something that I've been trying to figure out lately, because it's recently become apparent that my approach is somewhat different than that of several people I know. I think I'm quite shallow about it, so i guess I thought I was typical. XD But I may not be. I care about writing ability but I don't get that concerned about plot or characterization - fanfic to me is primarily a sexual thing, I think. Even when it's a PG rated romance story, it's sexual, because for me penetration does not have to occur for something to be sexy, there just has to be a sort of power difference.
And that's because I am what I call a kinky person - but meaning I'm someone who is aroused by power difference in all types of media and to an extreme extent. So you could totally define kinky a different way, it's all very awkward. But just because that's how my sexuality works, shouldn't automatically imply that I would go to fanfiction primarily for sexual gratification. Like, I could be a person that's turned on by kinky sex, but doesn't read about kinky sex in my fanfic. But that's not the case.
I mean, I guess we turn to fanfic to get fulfillment that we can't get from the source material. Hence the emphasis on romantic stories, and especially slash. We don't get to see the characters (I'm going to say characters even though I recently started reading RPS, because that's still how I think of them, I don't know what that says) interacting the way we want them to, or might be interested in seeing. But even if it's just a domestic scene involving characters from an action show. Y'know? You want to see the characters have relationships that go deeper than what you get in the source material, or get to see them in another context. But more often than not, that's a romantic context - even if it's a canon pairing (which I don't think I've ever read extensively), you want to see more of the relationship or explore it beyond that which it gets on the show. I rarely read G-rated material, but I have. And I like it, if it's able to really show a side of the source material that I a) didn't get to see and b) wanted to see. And usually what falls in that material is relationships. Actually, I am someone that watches, say, Stargate SG-1 and wishes we could get an episode about Jack and Sam hanging out at the base and bugging General Hammond, but I think in terms of writing ability of the fanfic authors, I'm more likely to get a satisfying romance (not between Jack and Sam, I don't read het much, but that goes back to the sexual thing - which I do not see how it is linked to this second part of my analysis, I'll get back to it) than a satisfying episode, basically. So that's part of why G-rated stories don't interest me much, I guess.
Hmm. So on the one hand, I want my fanfic to turn me on. And it doesn't need to have actual sex to do that, it just needs to have characterizations in which my favorite character (normally one per fandom) is, in some loose way, in a position of decreased power. (this can be some sort of feminization, however subtle and not intended to imply power loss, also I like when the character is desired but that's sort of a whole different can of worms. also, hurt/comfort is always choice. And male-->female genderbending, for realz. so complicated!) On the other hand, I want my fandom to fulfill a desire to see the characters in a certain way that the source material is lacking.
OK, so I'm looking at my super-secret-but-not-really-so-please-don't-look-for-it journal where I just post all the fanfics I like in various fandoms so I have them wherever I go and I can do a little write up as well. And I'm trying to pull out the ones with ratings of PG-13 or below. Cos those are the ones where I guess it's more obvious what it is that I like, because in the higher rated ones, it's clearly the sex - even though I can pull out power different parts even in vanilla sex for the fics that I mark.
Koyato, G - Shige is afraid of thunger and Koyama comforts him, so it's sort of the hurt/comfort, plus Shige's all vulnerable and the other person (the fact that it's Koyama is, I think, a side thing) is strong and comforting.
Koyato, G - I like the second one, the way Shige allows Koyama to pick him up and carry him to bed.
Koyato, PG - Again, the second one - I love the description of Shige as being so sexy, and I love the way Koyama lusts after him. Good keywords: narrow waist and hips, off-shoulder shirt, choker, thin neck. I think it's suggestions of Shige having a feminine appearance.
Yoko/Ryo, PG - That's right, Ryo is my Kanjani8 uke of choice. XD I'll get into this one-character thing later, I guess. Anyway, Ryo is sweet and, although I hesitate to use this word, childlike. He pouts, and is cute and sweet and sleepy. I'm completely not interested in children or young teens or anything like that, I don't want them in my fanfic or my porn in any way - but I am very interested in adults behaving in a childlike manner. Or a petlike manner. This goes to extremes but more in my visual and non-fandom pornography. XD (On the subject of me NOT being a pedophile, I can't even really read stuff about ABC because even though they're all just about my age, since they haven't debuted and are still "juniors" I think of them as underage. O.o lol. Oops.)
Ohmiya, PG-13 - They all go to a haunted house and Nino gets scared and Ohno protects him. XD I'm seriously that easy. I count this sort of thing as power difference, my definition is very broad. Ohno has not power over Nino, but more power to control the situation than Nino, who is more the victim, the damsel in distress.
Nino/Sho, G - Nino sits in Sho's lap. More of that childlike thing, I guess. I think the relationship between a person who's sitting in someone's lap and the person having their lap sat on is a fairly defined one with particular implications.
Aiba/Nino, PG-13 - I hope this shows how I feel about the other half of the pairings. It's the same with NEWS and Kanjani8 but there were less hot PG-13 and under choices, so you don't see my pairing variety. Anyway, I'm so into this fic. I'm sure this is not what you were going for, Ames, but the sick, vulnerable, cute, childlike Nino being lusted after is basically just. . . I'm so, so there.
Makio/Sakurakouji (MBMH), PG - This pairing, from My Boss My Hero (think tough, violent yakuza Nagase and little chubby soft basically just like he is but less confident Tegoshi), is so prime for me being turned on without them having sex. Which is good cos I've only read maybe one NC-17 fic for them. ): But anyway, first Tegoshi/Sakurakouji is kidnapped and Makio/Nagase has to save him, then Sakurakouji makes Makio jealous and then has to appease him and then Sakurakouji gets compared to a woman, which happens a lot and I love it.
Makio/Sakurakouji, PG-13 - this author has a fic in which Sakurakouji is called Makio's wife, one in which the idea of him crossdressing is mentioned, and one in which he gets a "Property of Sakaki Makio" tattoo, and none of them have any sex so they basically all are examples. So awesome. XD This one is possibly my favorite, in which a bunch of host club employees, I guess, get jealous of Makio's attention to Sakurakouji and then compare themselves with him and realize he's prettier than them and everything.
I'm not even going to get into my position on genderbending here. Basically, I really, really love fiction in which boys are turned into women, and I'm happy when they're sort of characterized in feminine ways (not in camp ways, in that terms are applied to them that are usually applied to women, sort of thing). The latter is something that I struggle with a bit, because my whole theory about gender is basically that in the ways where the mind is in control of the body, women and men are the same. But also, of course, I think they should be equal and there's a clear element of the feminization creating a power-difference, and I wish it wasn't that way but it still turns me on. That's part of why for me, penetrative homosexual sex between men is hotter than other combinations, because there's an implicit feminization, basically. Anyway, nonetheless, this is something that I've long had to accept about myself. In real life, a more masculine woman (but not a biker-can't-tell-the-difference type) is a lot hotter than an effeminate man, but in fiction and porn, I love feminized men. Anyway.
So that's a sort of brief sampling of what I like. Even though those are my G fics, so it seems like they should be of the "I want fulfillment for unexplored aspects of the characters" school, they are actually of the "I want fulfillment. . . of a sexual nature" school. They all turn me on. But these are the fics that I marked to reread - they aren't all the fics I've read and enjoyed. But they are, one might say, my favorites. I don't know why I just said "one might say," by the way. I am not a person who says that. Anyway, basically my requirements for liking a fic are incredibly dependent on their having the above elements. Ahhh, except for in Harry Potter where i started out wanting all the sex because it's a very, very kinky and porny fandom, but at this point I just want to read long, satisfying Ron/Draco romantic epics in which nothing too horrible happens. So in that fandom, possibly because I really don't like the source material that much, I am just completely option two: satisfaction and fulfillment that can't be found in the original work. But apart from that - my other fanfic reading fandoms being Gundam Wing, Horatio Hornblower, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Angel, Firefly (Joss Whedon is a king for providing Laura with fandoms), X-Men, Johnny's Entertainment (a different animal), the DC Universe (also a different animal), and to a lesser extent, Digimon and Stargate (I can't find enough material I like because in Digimon the fans are younger, so there's less good writing, plus I need stuff where the characters have been aged a little past the show, and Stargate because my character of choice is Jonas and very few people write about him). Also, in terms of the later fandoms - GW, Horatio Hornblower, Buffy, and Angel I all got into the fandom before the source material. It's hard for me to go the other way around. I know, it's totally odd.
OK, so with each of those fandoms except for JE, I have one character that I want to see be "uke." That is, if anyone is going to be hurt/vulnerable/desired/fucked/childlike/feminized, it's going to be that character. In GW, it's Duo; HH, Archie; for BtVS it's Xander; Angel it's Wesley; Firefly it's totally Simon; DCU it's Tim Drake; X-Men it's Bobby Drake (that bothers me. Do I just like people named Drake?); and Stargate it's Jonas. Like, totally, clearly, obviously. That person has to be in any pairing, they have to be the bottom, and I don't much care who they're paired with. Except that sometimes a particular pairing will be more or less likely to lend itself to the kind of fics I like to read. I don't know if anyone on my friend's list is even into X-Men fic, but Bobby is only occasionally characterized the way I want him to be, so I don't really get to read any of the Pyro/Iceman fics, and not too many of the comicverse ones. Also, often my Character is one of the most popular ones to write about and Bobby and Tim and Jonas aren't really.
Anyway, JE is all wacky-sauce, partly cos there's so many different groups, so there's different groups of relationships - which actually means some people get to switch. Plus, it's RPS so clearly they're more complicated, even though when it comes to fanfic I'm more interested in a simplified version - in my outside fanfic fan-ing, I like the complicated, of course! But yeah, Ryo - in Kanjani8 he's totally uke, and I find it ridiculously hot, but in NEWS sometimes he tops. Although I still prefer him to uke. But he also gets to top Uchi sometimes, too. And I never, ever, ever had switches before. I guess if I fic was really, really kinky.
Cos I think for me, like. . . it's probably obvious I don't worry too much about realistic characterization. Especially if I'm starting reading the fanfic before I'm familiar with the source material (I allow the fanfic to suck me in - i get curious about events referenced so I look them up and then I get interested in the show or whatever. True story - I now own three seasons of Buffy, started with the fanfic. It was daddy!kink, I didn't care who the characters were!). But I did switch main ukes with Buffy once I discovered what the characters were like. I think for me the original characters are a reference point, but that's about it. I was discussing this with![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
kegom and she was saying that she thinks Nino is a switch. And I agree, he totally doesn't act like someone who'd actually act like he does in the fics I like. He's a really complicated person who has many facets and different ways of acting. But the fact that he does sometimes act like that - cute and childish and affectionate, that's enough of a reference point for me to have something in mind, so behaviors and appearance, when I read the fic. Cos otherwise I might as well be reading original fiction (which I do, it's totally different. This one site has a lot of institutionalized slavery, I find it a total turn-off, actually.), the fan-ness of fanfic does play a big role.
So yeah, I got to thinking about the role of actual characters in my fanfic preferences. I'm not at all looking at "geez, this person would never want to bottom all the time" or "hmm, I bet he'd like to pitch and catch." What their characters indicate about their preference has. . . not nothing to do with what I like in fic, but very little. Rather than watching the boys - or even, in a non-RPS fandom, watching the show or reading the comic books - and thinking "Oh, those two seem to like each other quite a lot," I think "Hmm, who would be hot together?" It's totally sexually motivated. Plus, because of my exaggerated power difference thing, there's always going to be out of character behavior, pretty much. Especially in the JE RPS world.
So there's also one character that I latch on to. And I latch on to them. . . I actually already had them all listed because I was trying to figure out common points. I know I've been saying vulnerable a lot, but I think some appearance of vulnerability is as close as I could come. And it can be physical weakness, or insecurity, or both. Duo and Matt I don't think actually fit this - but Duo is often made far more vulnerable in fanfic. Basically I guess the Gundam Wing characters are so loose that fanfic can take them anywhere. Maybe anime in general is more like that. Also, I think physical beauty - prettiness, that is, a feminine appearance, is another factor and Duo and Matt are very pretty. Xander, Wesley and Tim are all people who lack powers in a world where others have them, Nino is small and weak and Shige has the whole insecure thing going on. Archie has bad stuff happen to him all the time. Simon is just gorgeous and I think he and Archie sort of epitomize what I like in these guys that I fix on. But I don't know if I can quite explain why. I do think part of it is the way the actors play them. Also, Archie was basically canon sexually abused, poor lad. But yeah, Jamie Bamber and Sean Maher - I have really, really big crushes on both of them. But I don't read fanfic about them because I actually CANNOT do RPS. JE is just screwing with my head.
Anyway, these uke characters, except for JE's few switches (which do not include Nino and Shige - it's Ryo, and Pi, and Jin, and Hina, and maybe a few others), but let's pretend JE is normal and there's just Nino and Shige. In each fandom, all the fic has to involve that one character as the bottom half of the pairing. And, like I said, I don't much care who the top half is, except to the extent that it affects the dynamic. I'm not sure if this comes because I'm only attracted to the one character, and because of my sexual kinks, I'm only interested in the person bottoming. So I only want to read about the person I'm attracted to doing the thing I find interesting. But I might be attracted to the character because I start reading the fic and I identify with them, and that makes me like them and starts that cycle. Or, I could identify with them and then not want to read about them topping because I don't want to. I don't know. . .
So! Back to my original point. When I read fanfic, I'm not looking for the best writing, really, and definitely not the best characterization, or the most amazing plots. I'm looking for fic that I find hot, that turn me on. There's generally a lot of adult material in my fandoms so I sort of thought that's why everyone else was there, too. XD But now I'm starting to realize maybe not. Hmm. I wish I had a better point to bring this all too. I don't understand myself at all?
This also affects my commenting patterns, because I know I'm looking for such specific things, if I don't like a fic it really doesn't mean anything - and even if I like it, it doesn't necessarily mean it's a good fic. I mean, I can tell the difference, but the ones I get really jazzed about. . . the better written fics, the more emotional/sexual impact, but in order to affect me, having the above priorities is more important. So yeah, I never really feel I can judge.
Ah, I was going to talk about fanfic gender dynamics more but I think I won't.
But yeah, every time I talk about fanfic with someone I feel like I'm so clearly moving from a completely different place, our starting assumptions are totally, totally different, and it's really hard to explain where I'm coming from. Now I guess I'll just link them here. XD
That was long. Anyway, I went to the Balloon and Music Festival out in Suffolk today. Craziness! Met a couple of Charles's friends, very exciting. Not really much balloons or music but got to hang out with Corey, and got nice new earrings, and 13 comic books!! Woo! A bunch of Impulse and Superboy and also some Guy Gardner: Warrior ones. And I got fried Oreos! Yaaaaaay! So it was fun. Also, whoa. Suffolk is quite different from Nassau.
Note: I'm aroused by a lot of material that many people find disturbing. This material is primarily not found in fanfic, and is only touched upon here. But it is mentioned and if you will get freaked out by that, please don't read this and maintain your mental image of me as normal and pure. XD Oh, hey, Corey! You said you were going to stop by to read about gynocologists - that's the entry below this one! Keep moving! I know, my normal and pure ship has sailed with you. Still. . .
My position towards fanfic is something that I've been trying to figure out lately, because it's recently become apparent that my approach is somewhat different than that of several people I know. I think I'm quite shallow about it, so i guess I thought I was typical. XD But I may not be. I care about writing ability but I don't get that concerned about plot or characterization - fanfic to me is primarily a sexual thing, I think. Even when it's a PG rated romance story, it's sexual, because for me penetration does not have to occur for something to be sexy, there just has to be a sort of power difference.
And that's because I am what I call a kinky person - but meaning I'm someone who is aroused by power difference in all types of media and to an extreme extent. So you could totally define kinky a different way, it's all very awkward. But just because that's how my sexuality works, shouldn't automatically imply that I would go to fanfiction primarily for sexual gratification. Like, I could be a person that's turned on by kinky sex, but doesn't read about kinky sex in my fanfic. But that's not the case.
I mean, I guess we turn to fanfic to get fulfillment that we can't get from the source material. Hence the emphasis on romantic stories, and especially slash. We don't get to see the characters (I'm going to say characters even though I recently started reading RPS, because that's still how I think of them, I don't know what that says) interacting the way we want them to, or might be interested in seeing. But even if it's just a domestic scene involving characters from an action show. Y'know? You want to see the characters have relationships that go deeper than what you get in the source material, or get to see them in another context. But more often than not, that's a romantic context - even if it's a canon pairing (which I don't think I've ever read extensively), you want to see more of the relationship or explore it beyond that which it gets on the show. I rarely read G-rated material, but I have. And I like it, if it's able to really show a side of the source material that I a) didn't get to see and b) wanted to see. And usually what falls in that material is relationships. Actually, I am someone that watches, say, Stargate SG-1 and wishes we could get an episode about Jack and Sam hanging out at the base and bugging General Hammond, but I think in terms of writing ability of the fanfic authors, I'm more likely to get a satisfying romance (not between Jack and Sam, I don't read het much, but that goes back to the sexual thing - which I do not see how it is linked to this second part of my analysis, I'll get back to it) than a satisfying episode, basically. So that's part of why G-rated stories don't interest me much, I guess.
Hmm. So on the one hand, I want my fanfic to turn me on. And it doesn't need to have actual sex to do that, it just needs to have characterizations in which my favorite character (normally one per fandom) is, in some loose way, in a position of decreased power. (this can be some sort of feminization, however subtle and not intended to imply power loss, also I like when the character is desired but that's sort of a whole different can of worms. also, hurt/comfort is always choice. And male-->female genderbending, for realz. so complicated!) On the other hand, I want my fandom to fulfill a desire to see the characters in a certain way that the source material is lacking.
OK, so I'm looking at my super-secret-but-not-really-so-please-don't-look-for-it journal where I just post all the fanfics I like in various fandoms so I have them wherever I go and I can do a little write up as well. And I'm trying to pull out the ones with ratings of PG-13 or below. Cos those are the ones where I guess it's more obvious what it is that I like, because in the higher rated ones, it's clearly the sex - even though I can pull out power different parts even in vanilla sex for the fics that I mark.
Koyato, G - Shige is afraid of thunger and Koyama comforts him, so it's sort of the hurt/comfort, plus Shige's all vulnerable and the other person (the fact that it's Koyama is, I think, a side thing) is strong and comforting.
Koyato, G - I like the second one, the way Shige allows Koyama to pick him up and carry him to bed.
Koyato, PG - Again, the second one - I love the description of Shige as being so sexy, and I love the way Koyama lusts after him. Good keywords: narrow waist and hips, off-shoulder shirt, choker, thin neck. I think it's suggestions of Shige having a feminine appearance.
Yoko/Ryo, PG - That's right, Ryo is my Kanjani8 uke of choice. XD I'll get into this one-character thing later, I guess. Anyway, Ryo is sweet and, although I hesitate to use this word, childlike. He pouts, and is cute and sweet and sleepy. I'm completely not interested in children or young teens or anything like that, I don't want them in my fanfic or my porn in any way - but I am very interested in adults behaving in a childlike manner. Or a petlike manner. This goes to extremes but more in my visual and non-fandom pornography. XD (On the subject of me NOT being a pedophile, I can't even really read stuff about ABC because even though they're all just about my age, since they haven't debuted and are still "juniors" I think of them as underage. O.o lol. Oops.)
Ohmiya, PG-13 - They all go to a haunted house and Nino gets scared and Ohno protects him. XD I'm seriously that easy. I count this sort of thing as power difference, my definition is very broad. Ohno has not power over Nino, but more power to control the situation than Nino, who is more the victim, the damsel in distress.
Nino/Sho, G - Nino sits in Sho's lap. More of that childlike thing, I guess. I think the relationship between a person who's sitting in someone's lap and the person having their lap sat on is a fairly defined one with particular implications.
Aiba/Nino, PG-13 - I hope this shows how I feel about the other half of the pairings. It's the same with NEWS and Kanjani8 but there were less hot PG-13 and under choices, so you don't see my pairing variety. Anyway, I'm so into this fic. I'm sure this is not what you were going for, Ames, but the sick, vulnerable, cute, childlike Nino being lusted after is basically just. . . I'm so, so there.
Makio/Sakurakouji (MBMH), PG - This pairing, from My Boss My Hero (think tough, violent yakuza Nagase and little chubby soft basically just like he is but less confident Tegoshi), is so prime for me being turned on without them having sex. Which is good cos I've only read maybe one NC-17 fic for them. ): But anyway, first Tegoshi/Sakurakouji is kidnapped and Makio/Nagase has to save him, then Sakurakouji makes Makio jealous and then has to appease him and then Sakurakouji gets compared to a woman, which happens a lot and I love it.
Makio/Sakurakouji, PG-13 - this author has a fic in which Sakurakouji is called Makio's wife, one in which the idea of him crossdressing is mentioned, and one in which he gets a "Property of Sakaki Makio" tattoo, and none of them have any sex so they basically all are examples. So awesome. XD This one is possibly my favorite, in which a bunch of host club employees, I guess, get jealous of Makio's attention to Sakurakouji and then compare themselves with him and realize he's prettier than them and everything.
I'm not even going to get into my position on genderbending here. Basically, I really, really love fiction in which boys are turned into women, and I'm happy when they're sort of characterized in feminine ways (not in camp ways, in that terms are applied to them that are usually applied to women, sort of thing). The latter is something that I struggle with a bit, because my whole theory about gender is basically that in the ways where the mind is in control of the body, women and men are the same. But also, of course, I think they should be equal and there's a clear element of the feminization creating a power-difference, and I wish it wasn't that way but it still turns me on. That's part of why for me, penetrative homosexual sex between men is hotter than other combinations, because there's an implicit feminization, basically. Anyway, nonetheless, this is something that I've long had to accept about myself. In real life, a more masculine woman (but not a biker-can't-tell-the-difference type) is a lot hotter than an effeminate man, but in fiction and porn, I love feminized men. Anyway.
So that's a sort of brief sampling of what I like. Even though those are my G fics, so it seems like they should be of the "I want fulfillment for unexplored aspects of the characters" school, they are actually of the "I want fulfillment. . . of a sexual nature" school. They all turn me on. But these are the fics that I marked to reread - they aren't all the fics I've read and enjoyed. But they are, one might say, my favorites. I don't know why I just said "one might say," by the way. I am not a person who says that. Anyway, basically my requirements for liking a fic are incredibly dependent on their having the above elements. Ahhh, except for in Harry Potter where i started out wanting all the sex because it's a very, very kinky and porny fandom, but at this point I just want to read long, satisfying Ron/Draco romantic epics in which nothing too horrible happens. So in that fandom, possibly because I really don't like the source material that much, I am just completely option two: satisfaction and fulfillment that can't be found in the original work. But apart from that - my other fanfic reading fandoms being Gundam Wing, Horatio Hornblower, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Angel, Firefly (Joss Whedon is a king for providing Laura with fandoms), X-Men, Johnny's Entertainment (a different animal), the DC Universe (also a different animal), and to a lesser extent, Digimon and Stargate (I can't find enough material I like because in Digimon the fans are younger, so there's less good writing, plus I need stuff where the characters have been aged a little past the show, and Stargate because my character of choice is Jonas and very few people write about him). Also, in terms of the later fandoms - GW, Horatio Hornblower, Buffy, and Angel I all got into the fandom before the source material. It's hard for me to go the other way around. I know, it's totally odd.
OK, so with each of those fandoms except for JE, I have one character that I want to see be "uke." That is, if anyone is going to be hurt/vulnerable/desired/fucked/childlike/feminized, it's going to be that character. In GW, it's Duo; HH, Archie; for BtVS it's Xander; Angel it's Wesley; Firefly it's totally Simon; DCU it's Tim Drake; X-Men it's Bobby Drake (that bothers me. Do I just like people named Drake?); and Stargate it's Jonas. Like, totally, clearly, obviously. That person has to be in any pairing, they have to be the bottom, and I don't much care who they're paired with. Except that sometimes a particular pairing will be more or less likely to lend itself to the kind of fics I like to read. I don't know if anyone on my friend's list is even into X-Men fic, but Bobby is only occasionally characterized the way I want him to be, so I don't really get to read any of the Pyro/Iceman fics, and not too many of the comicverse ones. Also, often my Character is one of the most popular ones to write about and Bobby and Tim and Jonas aren't really.
Anyway, JE is all wacky-sauce, partly cos there's so many different groups, so there's different groups of relationships - which actually means some people get to switch. Plus, it's RPS so clearly they're more complicated, even though when it comes to fanfic I'm more interested in a simplified version - in my outside fanfic fan-ing, I like the complicated, of course! But yeah, Ryo - in Kanjani8 he's totally uke, and I find it ridiculously hot, but in NEWS sometimes he tops. Although I still prefer him to uke. But he also gets to top Uchi sometimes, too. And I never, ever, ever had switches before. I guess if I fic was really, really kinky.
Cos I think for me, like. . . it's probably obvious I don't worry too much about realistic characterization. Especially if I'm starting reading the fanfic before I'm familiar with the source material (I allow the fanfic to suck me in - i get curious about events referenced so I look them up and then I get interested in the show or whatever. True story - I now own three seasons of Buffy, started with the fanfic. It was daddy!kink, I didn't care who the characters were!). But I did switch main ukes with Buffy once I discovered what the characters were like. I think for me the original characters are a reference point, but that's about it. I was discussing this with
kegom and she was saying that she thinks Nino is a switch. And I agree, he totally doesn't act like someone who'd actually act like he does in the fics I like. He's a really complicated person who has many facets and different ways of acting. But the fact that he does sometimes act like that - cute and childish and affectionate, that's enough of a reference point for me to have something in mind, so behaviors and appearance, when I read the fic. Cos otherwise I might as well be reading original fiction (which I do, it's totally different. This one site has a lot of institutionalized slavery, I find it a total turn-off, actually.), the fan-ness of fanfic does play a big role.So yeah, I got to thinking about the role of actual characters in my fanfic preferences. I'm not at all looking at "geez, this person would never want to bottom all the time" or "hmm, I bet he'd like to pitch and catch." What their characters indicate about their preference has. . . not nothing to do with what I like in fic, but very little. Rather than watching the boys - or even, in a non-RPS fandom, watching the show or reading the comic books - and thinking "Oh, those two seem to like each other quite a lot," I think "Hmm, who would be hot together?" It's totally sexually motivated. Plus, because of my exaggerated power difference thing, there's always going to be out of character behavior, pretty much. Especially in the JE RPS world.
So there's also one character that I latch on to. And I latch on to them. . . I actually already had them all listed because I was trying to figure out common points. I know I've been saying vulnerable a lot, but I think some appearance of vulnerability is as close as I could come. And it can be physical weakness, or insecurity, or both. Duo and Matt I don't think actually fit this - but Duo is often made far more vulnerable in fanfic. Basically I guess the Gundam Wing characters are so loose that fanfic can take them anywhere. Maybe anime in general is more like that. Also, I think physical beauty - prettiness, that is, a feminine appearance, is another factor and Duo and Matt are very pretty. Xander, Wesley and Tim are all people who lack powers in a world where others have them, Nino is small and weak and Shige has the whole insecure thing going on. Archie has bad stuff happen to him all the time. Simon is just gorgeous and I think he and Archie sort of epitomize what I like in these guys that I fix on. But I don't know if I can quite explain why. I do think part of it is the way the actors play them. Also, Archie was basically canon sexually abused, poor lad. But yeah, Jamie Bamber and Sean Maher - I have really, really big crushes on both of them. But I don't read fanfic about them because I actually CANNOT do RPS. JE is just screwing with my head.
Anyway, these uke characters, except for JE's few switches (which do not include Nino and Shige - it's Ryo, and Pi, and Jin, and Hina, and maybe a few others), but let's pretend JE is normal and there's just Nino and Shige. In each fandom, all the fic has to involve that one character as the bottom half of the pairing. And, like I said, I don't much care who the top half is, except to the extent that it affects the dynamic. I'm not sure if this comes because I'm only attracted to the one character, and because of my sexual kinks, I'm only interested in the person bottoming. So I only want to read about the person I'm attracted to doing the thing I find interesting. But I might be attracted to the character because I start reading the fic and I identify with them, and that makes me like them and starts that cycle. Or, I could identify with them and then not want to read about them topping because I don't want to. I don't know. . .
So! Back to my original point. When I read fanfic, I'm not looking for the best writing, really, and definitely not the best characterization, or the most amazing plots. I'm looking for fic that I find hot, that turn me on. There's generally a lot of adult material in my fandoms so I sort of thought that's why everyone else was there, too. XD But now I'm starting to realize maybe not. Hmm. I wish I had a better point to bring this all too. I don't understand myself at all?
This also affects my commenting patterns, because I know I'm looking for such specific things, if I don't like a fic it really doesn't mean anything - and even if I like it, it doesn't necessarily mean it's a good fic. I mean, I can tell the difference, but the ones I get really jazzed about. . . the better written fics, the more emotional/sexual impact, but in order to affect me, having the above priorities is more important. So yeah, I never really feel I can judge.
Ah, I was going to talk about fanfic gender dynamics more but I think I won't.
But yeah, every time I talk about fanfic with someone I feel like I'm so clearly moving from a completely different place, our starting assumptions are totally, totally different, and it's really hard to explain where I'm coming from. Now I guess I'll just link them here. XD
That was long. Anyway, I went to the Balloon and Music Festival out in Suffolk today. Craziness! Met a couple of Charles's friends, very exciting. Not really much balloons or music but got to hang out with Corey, and got nice new earrings, and 13 comic books!! Woo! A bunch of Impulse and Superboy and also some Guy Gardner: Warrior ones. And I got fried Oreos! Yaaaaaay! So it was fun. Also, whoa. Suffolk is quite different from Nassau.
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no subject
Date: 2007-08-19 08:12 pm (UTC)Yeah, this is where I noticed we differed in our previous discussion, I think. I'm not sure - cos now that I've started writing, and writing PWP NC-17 fics with power difference and OOC behavior, haha, I've been able to examine my attitudes towards characterization a little more. I think I do agree, about Nino being written as Yamada Taro-like - cos I think I mentioned above that for me, the use of the original character in a fic is about being able to keep the image of the source material in my head? And Yamada Taro is too far from Nino - I would lose the mental link. (Fics about Yamada Taro, though, I would eat up! He's like Tegoshi's character in MBMH XD) But then, you've already lost that link, or whatever, in the fics I linked to above - which are typical characterizations to the NC-17 fics I've got, I guess. Nino is often on the sweet and childlike side, I think. So maybe I just have a more flexible view. I'm just babbling here, basically - just trying to figure out how accurate I need things to be, still!
But then also, like, I'm looking at the Arashi fic I wrote, in which Nino is pretty submissive and in no way particularly Nino-esque, I don't think. But that fic was basically a scene - a BDSM encounter. (haha, I just looked it up on wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scene_%28BDSM%29) and that's exactly how they describe it and I feel very articulate!) And in a BDSM relationship, the sub might be the head of a company, or a cop, or something - someone who's normally tough and aggressive and a leader. But once they're in a scene, they go into what's called "subspace" - a different psychological state. So for me, I'm also able to see someone behaving in a different way during sex, and that allows me to suspend my disbelief regarding their character.
Cos I want to read fics where Nino is submissive, or at least bottom, but I want them to be fics where Nino is submissive - not, as you said, Yamada Taro. So maybe it is a similar attitude to yours but just looser and more flexible about the extent of Nino-ness (or whoever, of course) is required. Like - maybe those bouts of cute snuggly Nino are enough to give me a mental image of Nino behaving that way and still being Nino, so I'm able to continue seeing him that way in the fic. Also, in a Nino-specific way, I think I've mentioned that I find his personality somewhat enigmatic, maybe cos he is a bit inconsistent, so perhaps that also allows me more Nino-specific flexibility. Cos, like, my other bottoms, like Shige and Ryo, I think I do have an easier time seeing them submit than Nino - but I find Nino submitting just as hot, if not hotter!!
And then I'm also, like I also may have said above, mostly into fanfic because it turns me on. Except for reading HP Ron/Draco epics. XD And I don't need a lot of sexual tension leading up to the sex because as soon as you have a power difference, it's hot for me. More or less.
Hmm. I don't know. I still feel like I'm not really getting anywhere in an understanding of my fic sexuality! lol. I didn't think I was that inconsistent but every time I seem to come to a conclusion, looking at the fics I really enjoyed seems to contradict it!
Frick, I knew I was going to go over!
Just a little more. . . sort of.
Date: 2007-08-19 08:12 pm (UTC)Fics about the "three ossans" are where I'm probably most likely to suspend all of my usual fanfic preferences. I just want to read about them together, I don't even care how. All permutations are awesome and interesting. Your idea sounds great!
Re: Just a little more. . . sort of.
Date: 2007-08-19 10:23 pm (UTC)Yeah, it does. It's really hard to describe for me, because I'd like to say I'm less interested in the physical submission than in the mental; except that that's not completely true either, because I want the submitting partner to keep his dominant personality and submit despite of that. (I really love the idea of one of the two actually saying out loud that he's going to submit to the other. I think it's really hot.) Actually, the best example of my kind of kink is really Shakespeare's "Benedict and Beatrice scenario": two people who're mentally very much equal and have a power-struggle with words before they fall in love, but with the added factor of not being sure who of the two is going to show the mental submission by acting it out physically.
Complete and utter submission is rather boring to me, on the other hand. I don't know why (unless the fact that despite having brothers, as the oldest I'm always the one responsible for "manly" things like repairing stuff around the house, or trying to fix the bikes/car/bathroom sink, has somehow influenced me more than I realized), but weak uke who have to be taken care of all the time are not really my thing... But as you've said, we're all different and it would be horrible if that weren't the case! ^-^
Just out of curiosity, who would you like to bottom most with the three ossans? I think I mentioned it before somewhere, but Hina's the one guy in K8 I can't really see bottoming to anyone, while I'm still unsure about Yoko and see Subaru as the most submissive one of the three...
Re: Just a little more. . . sort of.
Date: 2007-08-20 09:25 pm (UTC)I guess for me what matters in the process, in the personality of the submitting person is if it's consensual or not (the latter, these days, is primarily in non-fandom erotic fiction - it's a bit complicated). And I get turned on by both, but in different situations, so it's a bit of a factor. So for me, that's sort of where the "does the sub just fold, or are they strong and vie with the dom?" comes into play.
I can see, though, the intensity of what you're describing. I haven't actually read Much Ado About Nothing, or seen it or anything, but I think it's the type of relationship that I would definitely really enjoy, in a literary way, rather than a sexual arousal way. Unless I got all feministy, I guess it depends on the gendered element. (When things are sexual I can put that aside, but in the non-sexual aspects of the relationship I can get agitated.) But otherwise it seems interesting and satisfying to read about - just not sexually satisfying. For me ;)
But yeah, I think in contrast I'm pretty attached to the idea of complete submission. And complete domination - like, in a threesome, I need one sub and two dom/mes, and neither of the dom/mes can get penetrated, and the sub can't penetrate anyone - it compromises the whole thing (that was a physical example, but it can occur mentally, too!). Although, in terms of being "taken care of," domestic service is another big kink of mine ;)
Hmmm, the three ossans. Hina is one of my big exceptions. Maybe it's just cos I like him so much and there isn't enough fic about him out there for me to be picky, but I'll take him on top, on bottom and in the middle - I can't predict what I'd choose if I was able to, really. . . Maybe bottom. But actually, amazingly, with Hina (I'm focusing on him because, as my favorite, he's my focus in any fics I read about the three of them) what really matters to me is. . . his characterization! Haha, of course, to totally contradict everything I've said. I like it when Hina is generous and mature and giving and takes care of others - even if he's just a cameo, I enjoy reading about him like that. So maybe I prefer him to uke because I like him and that's why I like my favorites to do, or maybe I prefer it because it seems like the more giving (even though the word "receiving" is commonly used!) position - whereas Yoko in particular seems selfish, you know, so I don't see him bottoming. So maybe that's where it comes from, cos Hina is quite confident, and sort of leads Kanjani8 and stuff.
Subaru. . . I don't know. My feelings towards Subaru are complicated as well, because for both him and Hina, although in different ways, I feel strongly drawn to them, I really like them and am a huge fan of them - but without any of the "I want to see him submit" elements that's often attached to that for me. Or rather, that's often attached to liking them in fanfic. Which isn't abnormal, I often like characters/people that I don't want to read about. With Hina, what's weird is that he's so unlike the characters I usually get hugely attached to, and Subaru it's weird because he is like them, but I don't have any of the same desire to read fanfic about him. So, with Hina, I'll read Subaru topping and bottoming but otherwise, I don't read much of him. . .
So, uh, in conclusion, I had no answer to your question, except that Hina is awesome. XD And I adore them all! Yeah, I guess I'm sort of inclined to say Hina, rather than the other two, but then I get confused because I like him topping as well. He is a big bundle of man. . . :;swoons::
no subject
Date: 2007-08-19 10:00 pm (UTC)But since I make up for that lack of flexibility by being extremely uncaring about top or bottom, it's all good! XDD
I think the thing where we differ most here is our perception of Nino, though. You're right, he is an enigma, which is likely why you're able to see his "real side" being as more child-like, cute and snuggly, while the description "small, cheerful evil" (from a fic I read just now) hits more closely to my perception of him. Also talking about perception: I've read about that BDSM phenomenon you describe and I can really imagine it with some people (Ryo, for example - I can totally imagine him coming home to Osaka from a long, exhausting tour with NEWS where he had to be his cool, mature personality all the time, and ring up his K8 friends to finally get out of that role and be petted and coddled and protected), but I can't imagine it with Nino, because he seems to get so many opportunities to be the protected and coddled and weak one in Arashi already (see the way he'll suddenly hide his head on Ohno's shoulder in the middle of Shukudai-kun, for no better reason than that he decided he wanted to) that I don't think he would need that kind of sexual outlet. Don't get me wrong, that doesn't mean I think Nino would never bottom - on the contrary, I could definitely see him enjoying being the coddled, protected one who gets taken care of by a dominant guy - but as I've said before, I rather see him as someone who will enjoy dominating just as much as submitting and who'll decide on his position in bed by the mood he's in that day. Funnily enough the very same thing goes with Ohno for me. I think he might even be a bigger enigma than Nino, not only because of his ability to go from friendly and spaced-out cutie to intense leader from one second to the next, but also because all of the Arashi members have commented at some point that they don't really understand Ohno (or, in Jun's case, even slightly fear what might come out of his mouth next during shoots). Just like Nino, I can imagine Ohno topping or bottoming depending on what he feels like that day, which is one reason why I find Ohmiya such a fun pairing, because with the way those two seem to play around a lot of times, I wouldn't put it past them to decide on their positions in bed by doing rock-paper-scissors...
...You're not the only one to go over. Oh dear.
no subject
Date: 2007-08-19 10:00 pm (UTC)If we understood ourselves completely, it would be boring! XD So don't worry, you're not the only one who constantly has to reajust the things you know about yourself! It always takes me by surprise when I notice that despite my disinterest in most top/bottom things I still find a pairing where I can't stand a switch. (RyoxUeda is one of the examples, just like TezukaxRyoma in PoT.)
Btw, I love Ohno topping his friends and can see it really fit with his Leader mode, but I still think it's even hotter when he bottoms, so I can understand the way you feel about Nino... ^___^
no subject
Date: 2007-08-21 02:24 am (UTC)So yeah, for better or for worse, I don't hear the voices of the characters. I think I try not to internalize them, actually! Cos, seriously, there is really no way I can see Koyama doing what I have him do. XD But then I also think it would be too ambitious for me to actually try to capture their real, complicated personalities in any way!
Ahh, I read that small, cheerful evil thing, too. . . was that with Sho and Shibata Rie? (OK, I looked it up myself - it was) Right, for me, that one is "some of the time" Nino and cuddly Nino is "real" Nino - but mostly that's because I really want that to be true, sort of. Actually, I think I've separated fanfic Nino from actual Nino, so if I had to come up with a theory of what Nino is like behind his somewhat varied stage persona, it would be sharp and smart and sarcastic, and probably a bit insecure about his role as an idol and career as an actor. . . but when I read fanfic, I'm able to think of that as a stage persona put on to cover up sweet, vulnerable real Nino. So it's sort of like, intellectually I see him one way, and emotionally (or in my desires, I guess) I see him another way. Whoa, I feel like I've come to a greater understanding of my thoughts about Nino just there!
Yeah, Ohno is a bit enigmatic. Although I think what I find enigmatic about him is his eyebrows. He seems like he's not really interested in the idol thing - like, he just wants to dance, he's great at dancing, he doesn't mind singing, he doesn't mind hanging out with the other four guys. But the talk shows, the interviews, the photo shoots, the trying to appeal to fans - his one concession to that (the way I see it) is his fanservice with Nino. He and Nino were like, "OK, we're not going to try to be the perfect husband, like Sho, or cute and ditzy, like Aiba, or fabulously gay, like Jun. But we'll flirt with each other, that should be enough, right?" Ohno seems basically like he doesn't care that much about how he's perceived - I hear he cuts his hair himself, although I'm not sure if I believe that, and they're always talking about his mom buying his clothes and his mail order shopping habits, stuff like that. But why are his eyebrows waxed/plucked/whatever? Does he do that himself? Does their stylist do it every week when he shows up to do Shukudai-kun? Does he go to a salon and have them touch up his highlights and do his eyebrows? It doesn't seem to fit!!
Plus, there's the stuff you mentioned - that he has the two personalities - spaced out vs. intense and together. Plus there's the fact that because he is so quiet, we don't really get to know him that well. The guys have mentioned he's different off-screen, which sort of enables one to create a mental image of a shy guy who's willing to be fairly silly with people he trusts, but there's still so much more about him, compared to the others, that I think we don't know about! Not that we have a right to, but it does leave me wondering. Although i always have so much doubt about how much truth we see, so I could probably do one of these "confusion analyses" for all the boys. Not even in a "Ahh, everything is scripted and fabricated" way, just in a "People behave differently in front of the camera, even if they're still being themselves, it'll be a different self" way and a "You can't really know what you'll think of a person until you interact with them" way.
no subject
Date: 2007-08-21 08:27 am (UTC)Still, that doesn't keep the voices in my head from popping up...^^" It hasn't got anything to do with me trying to channel their "real" selves, actually, since it's hard enough to channel the idol selves they've constructed for themselves, but the voices are just something I can't stop. It's like with radio-waves: As soon as I'm on the right frequency, the voices start up...(It can be a bit disconcerting, to be honest. Like, if I read Arashi sex-scenes, I actually prefer OOC ones, because when I can here the voices in my head, I get embarrassed by hearing their voices in such an intimate situation. So in IC fics I usually skim the sex-scenes a bit, while I can enjoy them in OOC fics.)
If I've learned one thing on the internet, it's that there's nearly always at least one other person who sees the characters the same way as you do and I'm sure there's tons of people who you give exactly what they would like to see when you're writing the guys the way you want them to be! ^__^
Seeing a character intellectual and emotional is a good description for that, I guess. I can understand it in a way, since as I mentioned, I really like it when Ohno is described as spaced-out and oblivious in fics. I know that it's only part of who he really is and that he's a lot less spaced out with friends than on shows; but I like that character-trait of his so much that I enjoy reading it in fic, even if I know it's not how he really is all the time. So, same thing you have, only with another character! XD (And maybe a bit less strongly felt? Because I love reading Ohno being on top and all intense and concentrated, too...)
Ah, Ohno and his plucked eyebrows! XDD It cracks me up every time, because as you said, Ohno seems to be the one least interested in being an idol and yet he has plucked eyebrows, usually wears a bit of eyeliner (though that could really be the stylists) and has perfectly manicured fingernails!
My personal theory is that Ohno just thoroughly enjoys sitting in a chair at a stylist's and having someone taking care of his face and hands while having a nice chat with them and that, rather than any thought of being an idol, is why he's always perfectly plucked, manicured and high-lighted.
Either that, or his mother (who he once mentioned actually goes to work) is some kind of hair-dresser or stylist and does it for him which ...would actually make a lot of sense, now that I come to think of it. At least it would explain why she doesn't feel weird dressing her grown-up son.
I've wondered before if Ohno doesn't have a form of attention deficit disorder.
The "classical form" (or the "real") ADD is (partly, since there are always different factors in the brain) caused by a lack of tension in the brain. To put it very simply: The brain lacks some of the energy we usually have during the day and is thus in constant danger to fall asleep. (Actually, ADD is a lot like narcolepsia, just not as extreme.) That's why a lot of children develop the hyperactivity - constant movement is a way for the brain to stay awake.
I think with Ohno it would explain some of his behaviour. Since our brain gets more energy when it's interested in something, it would explain why he can be so extremely awake, intense and focussed when he's with his friends, doing a choreography, or working on his pottery and drawing, and yet so completely spaced-out and unresponsive when he's doing one of the "chores" of being an idol, like interviews, or photo-shoots.
Aaah, we'll never know for sure! But thinking about how their brains tick is fun for me, just as it's fun for you to do all the statistical analyses, so it doesn't matter! ^__^
And yes! Do a confusion analysis! I'd read it! XD
no subject
Date: 2007-08-21 02:18 pm (UTC)I've only actually heard a couple of those - I usually just read
I was thinking, although, I would hate to read fic where the author tries to write about their "real selves" - cos we only know the idol selves! I've never been able to read RPS before, and I think the difference here is that we're not making stuff up about their lives, which I find just embarassing and awkward, we're just working with the material we're given.
Ahh, the internet is so great for realizing that you're not alone in feeling the way you do. XD
Those are both good Ohno theories! That his mom is a stylist actually totally does make sense! Haha, Ohno's mom is amazing. Oh man, and I forgot about his crazy manicured nails. XD Yeah, maybe he does just like the pampering. My confusion is partly a symptom, perhaps, of me forgetting that they're real people - and real people don't always stay in character!!
Ahhh, you know, people are always talking about ADD, it's such a sort of fad topic right now, and I never really knew what it was. That's really interesting! And certainly seems possible for Ohno. . . Intriguing!
Haha, I'd do my next confusion analysis about Aiba: Is he really that ditzy, or does he know exactly what he's doing? Maybe I will! . . . but right now I'm going to take out my retainer and eat some Oreos for breakfast ;)