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If you're wondering where I've been - which you probably haven't because I regularly don't update for a little while and am really a sporadic commenter these days - I've been reading feminist writing, largely about comic books. (Which reminds me, I owe ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
snortney08 a facebook reply.) (Also, note new ass-kicking, fishnet-free Black Canary icon.)
So I think I'm pre-menstrual and this makes me feel terrible about myself as a human being (I pushed a woman on the subway and she was snarky about it, and I left work a couple minutes early - and this guy commented on it) and also just gives me a feeling of. . . the opposite of "we're all in this together" - an automatic assumption that people don't like each other, an overall negativity. . . um, yeah, this is what happens to me, rather than anger and short-tempered violence. That's my default state, I think I get too weary for it when hormones are playing wacky. Anyway, so there's already that going on, and reading this stuff is a bit depressing.
But less depressing than it has been in the past, because I've been reading Girls Read Comics And They're Pissed by Karen Healey and she's really incredibly articulate and really says a lot of what I want to say but can't figure out, in a really effective manner. Well, it's convincing to me, although I already agree with her. This bingo card of common anti-comics-feminist arguments is incredibly, incredibly helpful. What I do think, though, is that a lot of the discussions I've seen don't realize the basic missing assumptions on the part of their opponents (there's also a LOT of defensiveness, which I understand). I actually made a list of things you need to make sure everyone is on the same page about before you can launch into a discussion of these issues. While I was cooking dinner last night, on a bit of scrap paper in the kitchen. XD
-Objectification of women exists
-This is bad - it has negative consequences
-Portraying women as sexualized objects in the media exists, and is common in comic books
-This leads to consumers of these media viewing women as sexual objects and is therefore harmful
OK, they're a little repetitive and need some refining. But really, these are not shared conceptions, and no matter how much you argue that a figurine is degrading to women, someone is never going to understand that until he or she accepts the above assumptions.
A couple shockingly obvious examples that this is occurring:
Frank Miller's portrayal of Vicki Vale and also EVERYTHING ELSE HE DOES and every single woman in All Star Batman. This is where I got the rage going, although mostly throughout this foray I was depressed and also thoughtful and enlightened. I'm not linking to some of the articles about him because they're too upsetting.
Sinister subtleties of posing - a sly one. . . I would never have thought to notice this, but once she points it out, it's so fucking obvious.
Another interesting link is an excellent and thoughtful response to Joe Quesada's explanation of why there aren't many women working in comics. He's the editor-in-chief of Marvel but of course he denies all responsibility. The article generally points out some really interesting, and sad, and. . . important, I think is the word, things about women in creative fields in general.
THIS IS EXCELLENT AND NOT COMIC BOOK RELATED. It's an exploration of how a privileged person should behave when issues of privilege are being discussed. It's an excellent, excellent resource. I know several white males who need to read it, and being straight and white and wealthy and educated, I have my own share of privileged positions and felt I benefited from reading as well.
Further excellent non-comics discussion of patriarchy. This is basically everything you've always wanted to articulate but never been able to. It was in response to a movement at a Con where women could put on buttons saying it was okay to grope their breasts. It was defended at length as a way to show appreciation of women's bodies in a safe way and therefore increase their self-esteem. The article in question doesn't deal with the initial issue but with some of the responses to it. It answered questions that I'd had for a while and is so very much worth reading. I wish I could memorize it.
One of the main things I'm coming away with is that women are viewed as being bodies, sexual bodies. It's certainly not an all-the-time thing, but it's the default public interaction between genders.
Anyway, I will conclude with a couple links that are, actually, genuinely hilariously funny. SO FUNNY! But also sad, because they're true. But also funny!
If men were sexualized the same as women on comic book covers. AWESOME. Oh, Superman, you minx. (Two notes: (1) women are usually not sexualized quite so blatantly - this is a Frank Miller All Star Batman issue again. (2) even if DC was gonna publish comics with covers like these, it wouldn't be the same because there isn't the history - see the springheel-jack article linked to directly above.)
Reasons to put women into your fiction. Written by a dude! All ironic-like and terribly clever. I quote: Now before you scoff; "Pshaw, what could a woman have to do with matters of import?" let me bamboozle you with a few left-field ideas I've picked up from some of the writers around the world.
I will say that this is actually steering me back towards Johnny's a little bit - Katie sent me an old picture of Sakamoto that reminded me of one of the very first things that attracted me to the fandom: the gender reversal. Japan's got problems, but if you look at them sort of in a vacuum, not interacting with or talking about women, it's kind of awesomely challenging to the way gender roles usually play out in the media. The boys are so clearly intended to be viewed, intended to be the objects of female desire. Maybe it's the yaoi thing, but they're allowed to be sexy in a non-aggressive way. It feels really, really good to see that after reading this stuff. The male sexuality used to pander towards women.
I know, this entry will come across differently to non-comics fans because you already don't like the industry, or maybe already hate it for being so sexist. Obviously this is one of the most negative angles from which it can be approached. But I really do think the ideas can be applied to portrayals of women in the media in general, for the most part. They're just really good, concrete examples that are beautifully articulated and explored and argued. I definitely recommend checking out some of the links, even though I'm not quite sure what you'll take away.
And now I'm going to sleep because lack thereof has been making me sickly this week.
snortney08 a facebook reply.) (Also, note new ass-kicking, fishnet-free Black Canary icon.)So I think I'm pre-menstrual and this makes me feel terrible about myself as a human being (I pushed a woman on the subway and she was snarky about it, and I left work a couple minutes early - and this guy commented on it) and also just gives me a feeling of. . . the opposite of "we're all in this together" - an automatic assumption that people don't like each other, an overall negativity. . . um, yeah, this is what happens to me, rather than anger and short-tempered violence. That's my default state, I think I get too weary for it when hormones are playing wacky. Anyway, so there's already that going on, and reading this stuff is a bit depressing.
But less depressing than it has been in the past, because I've been reading Girls Read Comics And They're Pissed by Karen Healey and she's really incredibly articulate and really says a lot of what I want to say but can't figure out, in a really effective manner. Well, it's convincing to me, although I already agree with her. This bingo card of common anti-comics-feminist arguments is incredibly, incredibly helpful. What I do think, though, is that a lot of the discussions I've seen don't realize the basic missing assumptions on the part of their opponents (there's also a LOT of defensiveness, which I understand). I actually made a list of things you need to make sure everyone is on the same page about before you can launch into a discussion of these issues. While I was cooking dinner last night, on a bit of scrap paper in the kitchen. XD
-Objectification of women exists
-This is bad - it has negative consequences
-Portraying women as sexualized objects in the media exists, and is common in comic books
-This leads to consumers of these media viewing women as sexual objects and is therefore harmful
OK, they're a little repetitive and need some refining. But really, these are not shared conceptions, and no matter how much you argue that a figurine is degrading to women, someone is never going to understand that until he or she accepts the above assumptions.
A couple shockingly obvious examples that this is occurring:
Frank Miller's portrayal of Vicki Vale and also EVERYTHING ELSE HE DOES and every single woman in All Star Batman. This is where I got the rage going, although mostly throughout this foray I was depressed and also thoughtful and enlightened. I'm not linking to some of the articles about him because they're too upsetting.
Sinister subtleties of posing - a sly one. . . I would never have thought to notice this, but once she points it out, it's so fucking obvious.
Another interesting link is an excellent and thoughtful response to Joe Quesada's explanation of why there aren't many women working in comics. He's the editor-in-chief of Marvel but of course he denies all responsibility. The article generally points out some really interesting, and sad, and. . . important, I think is the word, things about women in creative fields in general.
THIS IS EXCELLENT AND NOT COMIC BOOK RELATED. It's an exploration of how a privileged person should behave when issues of privilege are being discussed. It's an excellent, excellent resource. I know several white males who need to read it, and being straight and white and wealthy and educated, I have my own share of privileged positions and felt I benefited from reading as well.
Further excellent non-comics discussion of patriarchy. This is basically everything you've always wanted to articulate but never been able to. It was in response to a movement at a Con where women could put on buttons saying it was okay to grope their breasts. It was defended at length as a way to show appreciation of women's bodies in a safe way and therefore increase their self-esteem. The article in question doesn't deal with the initial issue but with some of the responses to it. It answered questions that I'd had for a while and is so very much worth reading. I wish I could memorize it.
One of the main things I'm coming away with is that women are viewed as being bodies, sexual bodies. It's certainly not an all-the-time thing, but it's the default public interaction between genders.
Anyway, I will conclude with a couple links that are, actually, genuinely hilariously funny. SO FUNNY! But also sad, because they're true. But also funny!
If men were sexualized the same as women on comic book covers. AWESOME. Oh, Superman, you minx. (Two notes: (1) women are usually not sexualized quite so blatantly - this is a Frank Miller All Star Batman issue again. (2) even if DC was gonna publish comics with covers like these, it wouldn't be the same because there isn't the history - see the springheel-jack article linked to directly above.)
Reasons to put women into your fiction. Written by a dude! All ironic-like and terribly clever. I quote: Now before you scoff; "Pshaw, what could a woman have to do with matters of import?" let me bamboozle you with a few left-field ideas I've picked up from some of the writers around the world.
I will say that this is actually steering me back towards Johnny's a little bit - Katie sent me an old picture of Sakamoto that reminded me of one of the very first things that attracted me to the fandom: the gender reversal. Japan's got problems, but if you look at them sort of in a vacuum, not interacting with or talking about women, it's kind of awesomely challenging to the way gender roles usually play out in the media. The boys are so clearly intended to be viewed, intended to be the objects of female desire. Maybe it's the yaoi thing, but they're allowed to be sexy in a non-aggressive way. It feels really, really good to see that after reading this stuff. The male sexuality used to pander towards women.
I know, this entry will come across differently to non-comics fans because you already don't like the industry, or maybe already hate it for being so sexist. Obviously this is one of the most negative angles from which it can be approached. But I really do think the ideas can be applied to portrayals of women in the media in general, for the most part. They're just really good, concrete examples that are beautifully articulated and explored and argued. I definitely recommend checking out some of the links, even though I'm not quite sure what you'll take away.
And now I'm going to sleep because lack thereof has been making me sickly this week.
